Welcome to Dwell on These Things, a podcast by Dwell Community Church in Columbus, Ohio, where we hear stories and examples of how God is moving in the church at Dwell and around the world. Hey, welcome to Dwell on These Things. My name is David. I'm the podcast administrator here at Dwell Community Church. I'm joined today by Jim Leffel, the global partnership co-director here at Dwell. Jim's been on staff for 35 years full-time, a little bit longer part-time. Jim's here to talk about our global partner in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Jim, thanks for coming on. Great to be with you, David. So Jim, we had a couple podcasts over the summer about some of the temporary relief efforts to our global partner in the Democratic Republic of Congo. However, we wanted to bring you back on to talk about some of the potential permanent solutions to some of the problems that they're facing over there. And so I wondered if we could start just by you talking about how they're doing now and what we're doing moving forward to help them with some of these relief efforts. Yeah, great questions. The Democratic Republic of Congo is the fifth poorest country in the world, and it has been a site of basically civil war for a number of years. This year, however, things have changed in which a militia group called M23 has taken over the two major cities of north and south Kivu, Bukavu, and Goma. And it has created mass panic, fear in these cities, and tremendous deprivations because all economic activity has essentially ceased. Banks are closed. Markets are open, but it's hard to go out and buy food. So because of the hunger of the people there, as is evidenced by the fact that they eat a meal a day, essentially, of maize or rice and beans, that type of thing, they don't eat meat really at all, maybe a fish periodically, but not consistently. They're malnourished. So we have come alongside three times this year to provide money to buy large supplies of grain, rice, beans for distribution to our hungry brothers and sisters, and that has gone really well. But it was always understood that this was a short-term ministry for a short-term crisis. But that short-term crisis is really turning into a way of life. And so there's no sense that there's an end to this occupation, no end to the brutality of the militias that are now running these cities. And so a new approach really needs to take root. And so our partners at Toonami Christian Fellowship have a microloan program that has used modest sources of money to raise money for households to buy food. And so the thought was that if we want to really come alongside our brothers and sisters who are hungry, we can globalize that initiative. In other words, we can get more households involved in a microloan program so that they can buy at wholesale price large stocks of food, then package them for households and sell them at a very modest profit. And in that way, they're doing two things. One is they're able to feed their own households. And the other is that they're building equity in the program that enables them to become increasingly self-reliant economically. Okay. We had talked with some of these temporary relief efforts that some of the biggest problems was getting money and food across different political lines. Is that still going to be a problem or a factor with some of these solutions? So the food stuffs are coming in through Rwanda. And both Goma and Bukavu, where we have our partnerships, are border cities. And so what happens is that large stashes of crops are brought in, and they're basically warehoused in large market areas. So the supply is there. The problem is with the economic ability to secure those resources. And so we can fund, and we have agreed to fund $18,500 in microloan money in a border bank in Rwanda. And so our partner is able to go outside of Bukavu and to a bank and withdraw those funds, and then bring them back in to both Goma and Bukavu, sort of under the radar screen, and then distribute that to their microfinance network. And so what that looks like is 292, mostly women, who are broken down into groups of 8 to 10. And with $100 per household to invest, they are able to then buy these larger sums of food, and then begin that process of selling at modest profits what they've got. That's cool. Was this idea something that they had come up with, or is this something that had the idea of? I'm curious how that came about. Yeah, so it was a little bit of a fusion. They've had a microfinance program for several years, and it's been quite effective, actually. In 2023, they had $2,640 in their microfinance program, and actualized a profit of $528. In other words, they were able to repay all that they borrowed, and then had another $500 left over to reinvest in the program. They did the same thing in 2024 with $6,500 in investment and $1,300 in profit. And so you can see that they are able to pay back these loans, and they're able to grow the store of cash they have available for reinvestment. But it's not enough to give the scale of the problem that you currently have. As the scale of problems goes up, the amount needed is going to go up. Okay, so that's exactly right. Yeah. And so on our side, we have agreed that instead of ongoing relief initiatives to buy more food for the crisis, if we can fund their microfinance program and make that really for all or most of the households of the home churches that are in these cities, then they will be able to do what we might call relief through development. And so it's usually backwards. It's usually the other way around. Relief is one thing, and development is another, where relief is short-term, and it's getting life-necessary resources to people in crisis, whereas development is for poor communities to develop in an increasingly broad way their economic base. What we're doing here is a little bit of fusing those worlds together by saying, if we can now expand that economic base through a microloan program, we can affect the work of relief and food purchase through the profits that that ministry brings. And this is in line with some of Dwell's philosophy of trying to indigenous leaders who can support themselves. We're essentially following that same principle financially. Yes, that's exactly right. And I think that you bring up an important point here, which is that this is entirely indigenously run. We're providing catalyst in the cash, but the program is administrated by them. It is supervised by them. They report twice monthly on their investments. And so we track it, but they're doing it. And it's really kind of exciting to see that they have both the vision and the ownership of the whole process. That's awesome. And so, just to transition, some of the financial burdens and financial solutions have changed a lot over the past year for them. I wanted to transition into some of their spiritual goals and some of the new burdens that have come up from that. And so, how has the mission and goal of what they're trying to do and how they're accomplishing that changed between the beginning of this year and what they're trying to do for 2026? Yeah, good question. So, in a couple of ways, one is that the very fact that they are getting help to meet really basic needs, life needs, food has expanded their witness in their communities because they're able to share with those who don't have. And that is really important. And these reliefs, they're only getting enough food maybe for their family if that. And so, them deciding to share that is really an act of generosity. It really is. And in that context, many of the families in these cities have taken in refugees who have fled to the city from the countryside that has been under siege. And so, in opening their homes, they may have half again as many people living with them that are not their family members. And so, they're able to provide for them through that kind of generosity. And that makes a difference. People see that there is the love of Christ is global and that it really is there to meet their basic needs. Last time you were on, we talked about how the home church model was really strained as some of this stuff was happening because people can't leave their homes to meet together. If they do, it's very dangerous, specifically for women. I think it's what you had mentioned last time. Is that true? Actually, it's less women than men. And for young men, especially, who would easily be conscripted into the malicious army, which is a frightening thought. And so, yes, it's been challenging. And yet at the same time, they have continued to meet, almost all the home churches are meeting now, on the down low and they will change locations, things like that to be less predictable. But they are growing. They are actually planting new house churches during this time of stress. It's pretty amazing. I'm kind of amazed that more home churches are actually springing up because of that. Do you think there's other factors? I mean, you mentioned the generosity that they have more resources to give out. Do you think there's other things that might be contributing to the continued home church growth? I think there is. I think anytime that a crisis emerges, where people are feeling pain, where the future is unpredictable, where we're searching for a foundation to build our life and a sense of hope on, it does raise that question of what is adequate as that foundation? Where can I find hope? And in that context, to both see Christians living victoriously in that environment and having a message that speaks to that deep sense of needing to have a sense of future, of hope, of the God is near. He's not just some distant abstraction. When they see that and they hear that message, they do respond and that's why they're seeing an uptick, a significant uptick actually in people's response to the gospel. And that makes sense. I mean, it's easy to feel like outside circumstances should cause us to change our mission or how we go about it, but it's meeting together and it's discipleship that are going to continue and God's kingdom is going to continue to grow. That's right. As you've interacted with them, obviously some of the stuff is going to bring about new strains. Some of them we've already talked about. Are there additional prayer requests that you feel like they could really use right now, maybe large scale as a country, or if you have other stuff that you know of as you've talked with Vinton about things that they could really use? Yes. I think let's pray for peace because there is no peace in the land. There's been talk about treaties between the militias and the Rwandans and the Congolese, but that has not really amounted to anything different on the ground. If anything, it's made it worse because it's being drawn out longer. And so there is that feeling of despair that nothing is going to change if this is the way it is. And can you imagine growing up as a child or as a teenager, more or less stuck in your home, out of sight because of the dangers that are posed by these militias? It just wears away at your soul. It's hard. And so all our partners and our brothers and sisters in these home churches, yes, they are courageous brothers and sisters, but they are tired and they're hungry, and they just are pleading with the Lord for the day that this misery ends. So I think if we pray for their endurance, pray for peace, pray that through the difficulties that God would continue to open doors for them, both to take care of themselves and their neighbors and also for that sense of the growth of the gospel among them. We've been in formal partnership with Toonami Christian Fellowship and the Democratic Republic of Congo for—this is our fourth year finishing—and have known Vinton Nsoba, the director of Toonami Christian Fellowship and Toonami Medical Clinic as well. For years before that, we got to know him indirectly through the regional director of World Vision, who became a friend of one of the members of our fellowship here in Columbus, Howard and Kate Harris, and through that connection met Vinton and invited him to join us in a training that we were having in West Africa in the Ivory Coast and began to talk about planting house churches and raising up house church leaders and what that might look like in his environment. And then we kind of watched at a distance for a couple of years as he put some of that to work and found himself to be effective in that kind of apostolic role, that gifting that we're looking for in indigenous partners, people that we can come alongside knowing that they are already kind of raised up by God to be that kind of person on the ground. And so, having seen the fruit that we were anticipating seeing through a perspective partner, we entered into a formal partnership agreement with him, with that group. So now they have over a hundred house churches done only in the two cities in the Lake Kivu region, but beyond that as well. A very effective team of house church overseers and a growing national movement now of house churches in that country. Have you ever gotten to visit? Several times. What has that been like? Good. Bracing. It's interesting. The level of devotion that people have is evident when we put on training, they're all there with notes and Bibles opened and they're eager to learn. They are largely young. So there are a lot of students, a lot of people just beyond the university years. Is that different than some of our other global partners? It's a mix. Most of our global partners have a broader representation of ages. Toonami Christian Fellowship is a bit younger than most of them. You're saying younger. Is this mostly teenagers or... Well, from teenagers into early mid-twenties, 30. There are older ones as well, but a high consensus of it is really among younger people, which I think probably there's all the fact that Vinton and his longtime friend and partner Jacques are university professors. They teach in the management school of a Catholic university there in Macaw. And so they have that mindset of forming the minds of young people, not only in business, but also spiritually. And so most of the home church leaders too are 18, 19 years old? No, they're older than that. They're older than that. Okay. Gotcha. There are some that would be that, but most of them are older. Most of them are a little older. How large are each of these home groups? Because we were talking, I was talking with Dave Glover yesterday and we were talking about how in the Ivory Coast, for example, a lot of the home groups have to be a little bit smaller just because constraints on space. Is that similar for those? Yeah, it'd be very similar. The average size, I think, is a dozen to 14. Okay. Did you get to visit any of those when you went? Yeah. We go to a home church every time we're there. What was that like? It's just a blast. They sing a lot and interspersed with singing, people will share scripture. And then at a certain point, someone will open the Bible and say, we're going to study this passage here this morning. And so there's about a 20-minute talk from the word with interaction and prayer afterwards. And then people just, they love the community aspect of home churches. And so they stick around, they eat together. It's kind of like a multi-hour session that they have together. It's pretty sweet. I mean, you're talking about how having additional resources in a time of crisis is going to be attractive to the watching world. Having that spiritual joy in such a dark time has got to have the same effect. Yeah, that's a great point. We talked about last time you were on some of the things that you feel like God was showing you devotionally, interacting with Vinton and some of the faith that he has. I'm curious, as you visited these home churches, has there been anything that struck you or convicted you? I just continue to be humbled by the reality that when we are in the Congo or in any number of places that we have partnerships, that we really are looking at a quality of spiritual men and women that is hard for us to imagine. Because the price of following Christ is just much greater in these environments. They are making commitments to Christ, often running against the current of their families, certainly against their communities. Many of them will pay a price economically in terms of jobs, things like that. And so for many of our partners, the cost of commitment is terrific. And so you have... Out of that then a different kind of faith is forged. They really mean what they believe and they are prepared to put to practice what they've learned because they understand that that is a part of what it means to follow Christ. Yeah. Is there anything coming back to dwell that you think we could learn or could be doing different based on some of these home groups? Well, a handful of things that have really struck me and have been important in my thinking here. One is that they are much more centrally focused on prayer than we are. It's true, most of our home churches here have prayer meetings and that is awesome. But there is a... There's a difference between having a prayer meeting and being devoted to prayer. And that's what I see in our partners, that fervor and anticipation of that time together in prayer, because it's like, this is where we connect with God. This is where we together connect with God. This is where we know that God is hearing us and responding to us in our moment of need. And I think it is that sense of urgency, that sense of need, that sense of true dependence that is hard to cultivate when your life is secure, where your future is fairly predictable, where you're basically... You're doing okay. And so it's difficult maybe to put into words what I'm describing here, but the reality is palpable. It's... You can just... You sense it, you feel it, that there is a different thing going in the heart of especially very poor and often opposed Christians when it comes to their prayer life. It's interesting. Anything else? You mentioned prayer. Yeah, I mentioned prayer. I think that's at the heart of it, but also too, there's an urgency to express this message that they've discovered with family, with neighbors, things like that. They are certainly as devoted to the task of reaching lost people as they are to fellowship with one another. And so, because households are so important in most of the developing world, when someone comes to faith, their family becomes a mission field, and there they are, and how they live, how they interact, how they communicate with that household and with the households that surround them geographically in their neighborhoods becomes... That is their mission field. They are missionaries, and they sense that, they know that. And so it is a focus of life that I think is challenging to us who are, again, also sometimes pretty comfortable with our way of life, with our fellowship investments, things like that that are important, absolutely. But are we as sharply focused by the urgency of this message in relation to the calling that God has on us as individual Christians and as a community? I think our brothers and sisters in the developing world show us a bit more of that. Yeah, that's fair. Our partnerships are not unilateral. We don't come to our partnership saying, here we've got something to give you who are in need. It works both ways that, yeah, we do supply what's lacking in our brothers and sisters in the developing world, but they also supply to us what we're lacking in our secure, predictable, safe, affluent Western world. And it is challenging and bracing to see the level of devotion and conviction that these people have. And it is more difficult. Jesus says it's easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. And of course, that's hyperbole on the one side, on the other. He's making an important point. And it is important for us to recognize that our preoccupations are often very different than the focus of our brothers and sisters around the world, and maybe in terms of the heart of God, they're a bit closer than we are in that regard. And so, yes, it's possible then to take that lesson and to infuse that sense of urgency in our home churches among our brothers and sisters, to reach lost people, and to plea with the Lord together on their behalf, and to risk in ways that maybe are a little bit uncomfortable for us, a little bit outside of maybe social convention where you don't talk about things that are controversial or that are personal, that type of thing, and to take that risk and to open up that conversation. And we begin to realize, in doing that, sometimes that people are starving for that kind of involvement and would like to have that kind of conversation that we, perhaps on our own, be far less willing to enter into. The more that we strive to prioritize our comfort in our things, the less that we're gonna grow in this sense of urgency and deep conviction for the things of God, seems like what you're saying. Yeah, I think it's important to ask ourselves, what's urgent in my life? And if my neighbor's urgent, what does that look like in terms of my prayer life, in terms of how I think about them, how I interact with them? Yeah. I'm reading Touch the World Through Prayer right now through Wesley Doolin. He's talking about some of the stuff that you're talking about, that God gives us the privilege of getting to extend ourselves in prayer, not only to our local community, but also to world missions. And he made this point about, as you do that, you're gonna grow in your burden. You're gonna feel it more. You're gonna grow in empathy. And part of that's difficult, but we're not gonna regret it when we get to heaven. And we're even gonna get to see some of the results now. And it sounds like you're someone who's, as you've interacted with plenty of global partners, you've been brought into that at a greater level, which is cool. It's a great blessing in my life to be able to touch the soul of our brothers and sisters in the developing world. And I feel like I've learned way more from them than they have learned from me in that way. Yeah. That's great. Well, thanks, Jim, for coming on. Again, this is the third podcast that we've done about the Democratic Republic of Congo. Try to keep you guys updated if more stuff comes up. But if you're interested in hearing from Vinton himself, our first podcast on this stuff back in the summer, actually was a Skype call with him explaining some of this stuff and giving some additional details. And so if you're more hearing about this global partner in particular, you can visit a couple of those previous episodes. For more information and podcasts like this, as always, you can visit dwellcc.org. Thanks, Jim. Thank you.