Welcome to Dwell on These Things, a podcast by Dwell Community Church in Columbus, Ohio, where we hear stories and examples of how God is moving in the church at Dwell and around the world. My name is Dave Glover and I'd like to welcome you to Dwell on These Things and I'm here with a longtime friend, Steve Bauer, who currently oversees our operations division here at Dwell. So welcome, Steve. Yeah, good to be here. So Steve and I go way back, 1986. We first met and shared an office and even to this day our offices are only separated by a wall, so stayed close together for a long time, so it's just a real privilege to have Steve here today, and wanted to give him an opportunity to talk about his experience at Dwell Community Church. Yeah, man, it's been a good, what, 32 years coming up here. It's an incredible time, an incredible walk, so much change to the church over that period of time, and where we are now and how God has us positioned is sweet and remarkable. Yeah, so it's just been incredible to see the way that God has used you here and just the role that you've played, and just thinking about that, you know, having been here for over 30 years, and I'm sure when you came into the role there was some ideas or thoughts that you had about what the role would look like and how it would play out, and I was wondering what, if you look back on that, what was the most surprising thing to you when you started in this role as the Operations Division Coordinator? Hi, the question, Cash, coming in the door, it's hard to know exactly what to expect. Back in those days in 1995, we were at Weber Road off the railroad tracks, and I came into this facility, I shared an office with Gary and Dennis, and the founders of the church, and like a little overwhelmed about what to expect coming from a business background, but what I really stuck out to me was how challenging and incredible the things that were going on were challenging, the work was hard, and everybody worked to a really great extent, like trying to glorify God. It was clear that we were working towards something that was bigger than anything I'd been part of, and in my prior work, I enjoyed the work, I enjoyed what I was doing, but to be surprised at the commitment from people and the level of expectation in my role and in those around me was really a great place, because it was a great place to work then and to see everyone's pulling at the oars together in the same way. In my own role, I couldn't understand what I was getting into, and the diversity of what was required in what I was doing between all the different elements of, I'm the business guy, I am on the side of operations, and at the time we were trying to get buildings built on property that we owned, and we were kind of stuck, and there were multiple issues facing us, legal things from the community that we had to answer in order to even move ahead, and I had energy, I guess, and frankly, a level of arrogance that maybe ultimately God was able to use in changing me, but I came in thinking, oh, this organization needs me, and it became pretty evident that I was there for God's purposes and that God was wanting to form something in me that I didn't really understand until time went on, so. Did you ever think at the time that, yeah, looking back that, boy, I'm gonna be here for at least 30 years, or what did you think when you initially started? When I started, I had, you know, friends and family kind of questioning my decision and wondering why I was leaving a thriving career, at least a decent career, and in business, but it was, oh, I think I had a four or five-year plan, and again, looking to, oh, I can make an impact here, I could see some changes, I can see that I could help, but that was my horizon, and I even talked about it that way with my wife, and I talked that way with friends and old colleagues who were like, oh, are you gonna come back to, you know, the real world is the way they would term it quite often, and or how did you get that out of your system in a way, and instead, the next cool thing God brought forth came up, and the next challenge and the church growing and seeking new ways to serve and minister in the world and in our community became kind of very clear that I'd continue 30 years, what still stuns me, you know, that that that three decades have passed, and it doesn't seem like that on one level, on another, it is what it is, it's kind of amazing. Yeah, that's great, what an incredible journey. Yeah. So thinking about this, so we knew each other when we were 25, which is hard to believe, but anyways, if you could go back and tell your 25-year-old, give your 25-year-old self one piece of advice, what would it be? Hmm. I think, you know, at 25 I was not yet a believer, you know, you went through those years with me, you were integral to my coming to salvation, and looking back that far, I wish I had known what I was rejecting in God and Jesus Christ. I wised up maybe, you know, and things cut through over the next two years, and I did become a believer, but if I look back at me in 2025, I think it would have been at that time a message to myself about what's real and what matters, and the eternal perspective is actually available to us, that there's even that, what God offers us is so much greater than career and anything else that I was pursuing at that time, and yeah, and to actually care and deeply care for people, I guess those would go hand-in-hand, that that's what's eternal. Yeah, yeah. Well that's, I think, just as you think about your journey and look at that, the impact that you had on family, your former co-workers, and as they saw you live out your faith, it's pretty...it was a pretty incredible witness to them, and I know it's given you open doors to continue some of those conversations with people. It's a great example. So thinking about the the work here, and you've...there's been a number of projects that you've been involved in, and just different phases of the ministry here at Dwell, as you look back on, you know, all those years, what are, you know, some of the highlights, or what are some of the projects that you're, you know, most, you know, proud about, or that you felt like, yeah, that was a, you know, you could really see God working and it was a major accomplishment. I think when I first came in, we were kind of stuck in our building projects. So we owned the property at Cleveland Avenue in 270. We had it since 1991. I came in 1995, and the feeling at that time and the feedback I got was, anything we can do to move forward would be great. And we...boy, it's hard not to think about that time, and also think about what had happened in the prior couple of years, 93, 94, where, I don't know, for lack of a better, we had a schism in the church. We had a time where we lost around 1,500 members, which was about half of the adult membership, left and went to other churches, and, or wherever, but left CNOS Christian Fellowship at that time, and went out, and what was left behind though was a really unified, generous church that was ready to move ahead as we finally got financing that year, banks were willing to finance banks that would not talk to us before. God just was ready in 1995, and I was privileged to step into that at that time, and to do the work that was required to pursue those, you know, leads and things, and by just four months later, by August, we had funding and we were able to have a groundbreaking in August 1995 on the property for the first phase of building, which was our offices. Our offices on Cleveland Avenue, and off of Cleveland Avenue. It was just a remarkable time, and so it's like, I was not fully aware until later how amazing that was, and how it also reflected on how God had in the past worked in a similar fashion way before I was here, in 1985, when Calumet Christian School was established in Clintonville, and it was a Columbus City school that went up for sale. We were leasing it, and the other bidders for that property just kind of disappeared prior to our bid going in, and we were able to purchase that building, and to this day we have a fantastic school there, and it was an example of God acting and closing other doors, and opening doors, and then I just got to be along for the ride in a lot of ways. To do the work, to see it through, but to see God's hand in all of that, and then we were able to build the main campus building in 1996 and 7, and opened that in September of 97, and I think, you know, pride comes before the fall, but it's an okay pride. I don't know how to put it, but that got, like, to have a hand in that, and to see all the partnerships we needed to get there that God brought to us, and God as the biggest partner in all of it, to see it to fruition, and to see the church come behind that, and fund this incredible space for ministry. And that carried forward, like, I'm just, to look at spaces, I have the absolute privilege of having been part of every one of our building projects, to have a role to see it through as kind of project manager, working on design, and that was all new to me, and a wonderful experience, and a growth opportunity, but to see those buildings put into use for ministry, and to come alongside the growth that, in ministry, that had required those buildings. So, you know, going from there to 2004, where the church is growing, and our college and high school ministries are thriving and growing at over 10% every year, you know, and busting out the walls on properties that we had, and so God brought 4th Street into our hands at that point, and to be part of a renovation of a 120-year-old building, and just, again, like, how did I deserve any of that? And to be, to see it open, to see it packed with people, and then in 2014, to see, in a flashback to the old days, the warehouse named on Oakland Park, and to see the first night, just students everywhere, and to come alongside that growth that God was causing, and asking us to come along the side of. I'm just, it's a real privilege, and I'm proud to have been part of that, and only a small part in a lot of ways, like that's, there's such clarity that it was a thing of God in those cases. Yeah, I really like the way you describe that, in that it's, you know, God is paving the way, He's opening up doors, and then you had the opportunity to help facilitate building, you know, facilities, and in turn God used those to really expand His kingdom, and yeah, what an incredible ride, and what a, yeah, a great, like you said, a great privilege to be part of that, so yeah, that's amazing. So we talked a little bit about some of the projects that you've been involved with, many projects that you've been involved with. Can you think of a time where there was a direction that you felt like we were headed, and there was a, it just didn't come to fruition, or it appeared that God didn't want us to go in that direction, and we were able to change course. Yeah, God opens doors and He closes them, and I think it's, there are a few examples that in our, in our building stuff, you know, property related, it is the first thing to come to mind. We, in 19, early 1990s, actually in 1990 and 1991, we were searching for property, and we were looking all over central Ohio, and had, I think in frustration maybe, pursued a number of different locations for a church that long-term would have proven inadequate, and needed to search those things out and follow them to some conclusion, but God closed the doors on numerous different things. I won't get into all those, but there were some interesting things, well, like the Columbus Auto Parts location off of 71 that ended up being a EPA disaster location. That was good that we didn't get that one. We had a contract on another space that ultimately would have been inadequate because it was only a few acres, but it was available and a good price, and God closed the door, interestingly, in that case is that the owner of the property, while we were under contract, went to heaven, died, and we later, it was more clear, wow, as we came to the property at Cleveland Avenue in 270, where 63 acres were available, that that was what God wanted to put into our hands. And so the doors shut, in that case, were like kind of confounding, and it was a two-year period of like wondering, you know, are we gonna find a place for this church to grow on? And God had something really grand in mind and opened doors for the larger property that were just as remarkable, where, again, bidders fell by the wayside, and we were able to step into this amazing property that he put into our hands, and it's very difficult to believe that it was all, you know, that it was obvious from that standpoint. Going back to Calumet, that was the same way, you know, that bidders didn't show up, really. They put money down in order to bid with the city of Columbus, and they let us have it. And how does that, you know, that's not a normal activity, that's not something that you would expect to see, the commitment from a business to buy a place, and then just not to even follow up on that further. There were other examples as we searched for space for our growing, exploding college ministry in mid-2000s, and again in the mid-2010s, both of those properties. So Fourth Street fell into our hands as no one was looking in that direction from the university area. If they had seen this incredible property and scooped it up, we wouldn't have been able to buy it, and we were able to acquire the facility and do the renovations, and God opened that door to us and shut the eyes of other developers in that area, and brought us in 2014 to Oakland Park, where this incredible facility was and had been on the market for a while, and we were able to pick that up and develop right in Clintonville, in a prime area between Ohio State University District and the major parts of where we were serving in Columbus. So there were ministry things that God brought to us, and we entered into and later understood, okay, that wasn't the direction. What I've always loved about the church and about our leadership's willingness to step up and say, that was not the direction we should have taken, I think that's super healthy and super encouraging to be part of a church like that, where we're willing to say, we tried that direction, we thought God was leading in that direction, and yet it wasn't ultimately fruitful in the way we thought it was going to be, and say, all right, we learned something from that, and we need to constantly learn from our successes and failures and put those lessons, we'll have more failures and more successes, hopefully do, but into the future, so we better learn from those. Yeah, those are great examples and how, yeah, because it would be really easy and it was disappointing, but yet God was still at work and provided something even better than what we had hoped for. Yeah, that's great. So sometimes too, when we start our career or we change careers, you know, we have ideas about something, you know, things that we believe in strongly when we first start, and then over time maybe our beliefs about that or what we thought was true when we started is different. Is there anything along that line that you experienced during your time here, where you just essentially completely changed your mind about how you started, when you started? I think it has become so much more obvious over the years, God's role. If God wants something done, it'll be done, you know, and I believed that 30 years ago, and I knew from a head knowledge standpoint that that was the case, but I believed man's role probably had a higher level of impact and requirement than it really had, and so that would translate into my role and what I was putting forth, and that I could cause these things, and the frustration that would come from such a thing, you know, like backing off and saying, well, do the work, follow what God puts before me, but God's behind the work. That's so much more obvious over time, and I wish I had, that would, if I went back and told my third, let's see, what would that be, my 34-year-old self something, it'd be, pray more would be one thing, but then, you know, I guess submit to God's view, submit to what He wants to see done, and what is the right path, and He's always right. He's always correct, ultimately, and we have to fail, and we have to see that and see God's hand in the failure too, and what was going on there and what He want me to know, but man's role, meaning my role, is not as significant as I might have put it at that time. Yeah, that's well said. Well, what do you want people to remember about you and the way that you did your job? I think I'd have to start with what I want people to forget is the times when I was impatient, and I'm type A, you know that. Really? As a driven person with goals that are my goals, that could often get in the way, and I, so that's the juxtaposition, I guess, the other side of the coin, but I do hope that in my heart, I wanted, I want to serve today. I've wanted to serve for 30 years. That hope that God would use me to serve is, you know, has changed over time, but it's always been there, and I hope that people understand from my perspective that, hey, yeah, maybe overlook those things that I want them to forget, and to remember, I really desire to see God's plans moved ahead, and to see His people served, and to see the lost find God through us, through our facilities, through what we do here in Columbus and Central Ohio, and to see the world and our impact and missions that is funded by this church, just to know that I was part of that, and that I've hoped to foster that, and to kind of get out of the way, and to come alongside. They're both there. Get out of the way, and don't be a barrier, and come alongside what God's doing, and see His plans went out. Not my plans. So, yeah. So you kind of alluded to it, but just thinking about, you talked about, you know, you want people to understand that the things you want them to forget, and the things you want them to know, but when you think about it, what are the, being in this role, what are some of the character changes that God's brought about, both in the workplace and outside the workplace that you've seen? I am more patient. Some who might meet me now might not understand I'm a patient. I'm not sure that would be at the top of the list, but those who've known me, God's brought out patience, and work has shown me that it's, again, tied to His hand in our activities. That's everywhere, right? I mean, that's where it's not, oh, he's at work in the church, and I walk out, and I'm something different, but I needed to learn patience, to learn that I'm not the one that needs to win. That was something that just had to be, I don't know, I came to Christ with a attitude of, you know, success, and what, how that was defined from the culture's perspective, from the world's perspective. I needed that to lessen, even as I had been a Christian when I took this job for seven years, I'd been a Christian, but there was so much more that God wanted to work out in me, and to see, yeah, and to see the fruits of the Spirit and Galatians 5 come out in my life, and I really do, I focus on patience and self-control as I interact with people who...different thing. I grew up in my early work life in Stephen Covey's Five...Seven Habits. Yeah. Not Five Habits. Stephen Covey's Seven Habits, and to seek first to understand and then be understood really became clear is that I didn't often stop to understand people and to understand my bosses, my leadership that I was with, or my peers, or those who worked for me in the way that would really lead toward better, you know, teamwork and toward a better goal in God's eyes and in His work. And so just taking that time, and again, I think it comes back to patience, and that sure helped as I became a father, for example. You know, you look at how those lessons recur and how work creates an environment in which a lot of things come together where it's the same things as you're working with your family members, as you're working with other people, trying to be a leader in a home church, trying to make a difference in the lives of people, that God wants to work on the same things, and it's all, for lack of a better term, holistic, I guess, that life is all...quite often in the past, I have a different persona. Actually, people would tell me that you're different at work than you are here at home, or that you are in a social setting. It's like, that's not what God wants. He wants a consistency, and He wanted me to be me in His hands all the time. Yeah. So maybe think about, so you came to Christ and then you were in, you know, worked for a couple different companies until before you came to dwell, and I was wondering what kind of advice would you have for somebody with your type of background, successful business person that is, you know, working for a, you know, secular company, what advice would you have for them as they go about their day-to-day, you know, career? Mm-hmm. That's great, because before I took this role, I had, my wife and I had considered, what would it look like to work for the Church a few years before? And in that thinking, it started to change our minds about the things we were pursuing, the things that we were valuing, some of the things that we desired to acquire in particular, that became more of a bigger decision, because what they would tie me to, what they would tie us to, if our desire, you know, if God had opened a position at the Church for me, or where does God want me, period? Like, if there was somewhere He wanted to draw me. So when it came to the position in the Church being available, that seemed to line up with some of my skill set and my experience, it was still not simple to think through. It was still, took time and it, and making a decision, but it, that, just even considering it, opened so many vistas for us to think about what the future looked like, and to kind of free ourselves, free myself from the direction that I was heading and the way I thought about my role in the world and my job, and so I would suggest, and do to suggest to friends, to think about, you know, is this something God might draw you to? Whatever that is that's different than what you're doing now, and to not get too enmeshed in the things that a career in the world buy, that I was getting enmeshed in. Wealth is one of them, the accumulation of wealth, but also just the pursuit. I wanted to have people see me in a certain way, to see me as this professional, to see me as someone who had business acumen, and those aren't bad on their own, but as they're self-serving to me, I needed to really think deeply about what is it that God could open to me if I was open to Him, if I was willing to hear, if I was willing to listen, and so to not be tied into one where you are now, but to be able to think more clearly, more broadly, and bring God into the picture. Yeah, that's some good advice. Great. Let's shift gears a little bit here. So you've been involved in various ministries here at Dwell, and maybe you could describe some of those that you've done, and tell us a little bit about that. Very diverse. It is, yeah, and it kind of, I think it leads into what I'm hoping in the next phase of life, because I look back at the joy God brought to me in different times, different, you know, home church involvement is a great normative thing, right? It's something that we aspire to in Dwell, and that we see as the way to grow, a means of growth, that we have fellowship together, and we have, and that's wonderful. I spent, I got to go through seven rotations, I guess, of middle school work, so I got to hang out with students when they were 11. My oldest guys are now 45, figured that out, like, and have kids of their own, of course, and so 21 years of that, and I finished that with my own son for his three years in middle school, so each three-year rotation, and how that changed me, serving in that role, enjoying it, and trying to pass on the life of Christ, the love of God, and just see an inkling, even at that time in a lot of cases, but also that in each of those groups, there are currently kids sold out to the cause of Christ. From each of those, I got to do the wedding for two of my junior high boys later in their lives, that's pretty cool to just have that. My wife and I do marriage mentoring, and that is such a gift because it reminds us of the importance of things in our own marriage, of what it is that we appreciate about each other, and to pass that on again, and to have relationships, there's a, you know, we have a mentoring program, pre-marriage mentoring, and then to have some of those couples say, hey, can we continue to hang out and share life together is such a wonderful thing, and to have that, and then just to be part of leading a home group, our group is diverse in terms of age, we have the upper edge where I hang out in my 60s, and then the majority of the families are in their 30s, and have little kids, and parents need help these days. I needed lots of help as a parent, and to have a role there, and to come alongside at that time of life is such a gift again, it's just wonderful. So yeah, there's more, there's other things in there, but those are kind of like the highlights of ministry God brought to me and asked me to step into, really did. And not in every case was it something that was like I readily embraced, like junior high, and yet came to love, and kind of got addicted to a little bit. It was so enjoyable, and so great to see that, so yeah. Yeah, so you're at a place now where you're gonna be, will be bringing somebody on board to assume your role at some point here in the next year or so. What are you looking forward to in this next year, and as you think about that transition, and then going beyond that, what are the next chapter, what are you looking forward to? Yeah, I think about mentoring youth is one thing, like that was an enjoyable time, and I've maintained relationships with students as they've aged, but I feel that I'll be freer to actually do some life coaching is an area that I'm like drawn to, and in particular, I mean, my DNA includes this finance thing that my own kids need and needed. They're older now, but like to come alongside, and just there's a great need in that area. So I know that that's a point of clarity. We enjoy marriage mentoring, my wife and I, that's a cool area, and I want to really stay open to what God has to offer, too. It's, I will, I have over a year where I will remain on staff as we transition in someone in, and I'm looking forward to hearing from him about how he wants to use, especially my background in finance, and just the clarity that he's given me over time on personal finance, and on just direction with that. So there are doors that I think he's going to open and make evident to me, and I look, I do, I look forward to that, kind of relying on that element, too. Yeah, so thinking about the transition, and someone will come in that you'll be mentoring and training to take your role, what's some of the advice that you would give them as they start? That's pretty good. As you think about your, what you've learned, and your role over the last 30 years? I think that piece about understanding is critical, is to, I wish I was even now a better listener, but I wish I'd been a better listener all along, and to fully understand listening isn't just taking it in and having my answers ready, but to listen, and to respond, and to fully understand what users of our facilities are facing, what our leadership desires in a direction, what our finances can and can't do, or what level, and so to be clear in each one of those, and to be patient, and to also, you know, prayerfully consider, you know, what are the things that God wants to work on? We come with strengths. Each of us has natural strengths, and then gifting God's brought forth. We need to be honest about what our areas for growth are, and how God wants to use those things, and shore them up through others, shore them up through delegating well, something down to that level. I am looking forward to whoever that is that I get to work with will be an individual God's forming, you know, and will have all those, you know, skills and things they bring to the table, and I look forward to seeing how God wants to shape this in a very different way. I think this role will look different because of the person who's in it, and it grew up around me. The tasks that I was given, the areas of oversight, there's a core of them that are the same, but they've changed over those 30 years. I think they will change for the good again, and that the church will be well served by that, and to be flexible and responsive in his hands, and to serve, I think that's a given in a way, but to be the servant. Our whole, the operations area, every department we talk about, you know, we serve, we're behind the scenes, we're trying to make, we don't want to be talked about because usually you talk about operation roles when they fail, so it's good when people don't hear, or we don't hear feedback, it means that the job's being done, that meetings are running well, that the facilities meet the needs of the users, that our finances are properly handled, of course, that's a huge one, but the, we need to be doing our jobs well, and attending to those details. Yeah, good. What do you, I mean, again, looking at the next chapter, what do you think you'll miss the most about this job, and the role that you've played here? The contact with staff, and with you, Dave, you know, we'll stay in touch, and we're gonna have to work at that, but that the, we work with wonderful people who are godly, and under construction by our Lord, and we're all, you know, to know that, and to know the level of trust that we have in one another, that we're working toward the same ends. We still have tensions and things, that's natural, but we're working towards such a good, and glorious, and God-given gift that this church is, and that our mission is. I think there are, you know, I need to seek those same things out, and how I can continue to address that. I also love working with the members of our church on resolving issues, providing the services that need to be provided, getting the feedback on how to do things better, and hearing them out, and there's a strain that comes with that, but I think that I will miss part of that strain, and it will be difficult to see it replicated in any other way, but it's the time. I felt since last year that the timing was right for this kind of move, that it's good to bring in new, fresh eyes, and to retain those as long as possible, and I feel energetic, and I feel like I'm still adding value and seeing things change for the good, but to see someone new come into this role with a fresh perspective, with a different way of looking at things, I'm excited about that as a member of the church, and that's really what I landed on in the last year, is that what do I want to see as a member of this church, and that I will have time with that person, that's cool, you know, to pass on, I don't know, ethos, the way we do things and why we do those things, and to spend time in the trenches for a while will be fruitful. Yeah, that's great, I think that's a great perspective, and it sounds like you're really at peace with it, too, and the direction that God's put before you there. It's really, really admirable. Well, thanks, Steve, this has been great to talk about the things that God has shown you in the role, hear more about the role that you've played here, and so just really grateful for you and your contribution to Dwell, and ultimately to the kingdom of God, so thanks for that, and if you're interested in any additional resources or for other podcasts, please check out Dwellcc.org. Thanks.