Welcome to Dwell on These Things, a podcast by Dwell Community Church in Columbus, Ohio, where we hear stories and examples of how God is moving in the church at Dwell and around the world. Welcome to Dwell on These Things. I'm Abbey Merker, and on this episode, we are talking to the new principal at Achille High School, Morgan Zoller. And what we want to do in this episode is spend some time, one, getting to know Morgan, but also hearing maybe more specifically about like her background as an intervention specialist. And we're hoping to sort of discuss, okay, what are some things that help students thrive academically and spiritually? How does investing in a kid academically help them spiritually? How do we prioritize educating the whole child? How do we, you know, educate different types of learners? So welcome, Morgan. Thanks. Yeah, that was good. Thank you. Morgan, tell us your story. How did you become principal at Achille? Oh, wow. Okay. I have been in the education field since I graduated and I graduated with my intervention specialist license. So I guess what, like long story short, but... For dummies like me, what is an intervention specialist? Okay, that's a good point. Yeah, let's start there. So an intervention specialist is a person, a position at schools who work with kids who have some sort of like a, where they're at academically is behind or not where it should be. Generally, it's a couple grade levels or in reference to their age, maybe they're not quite meeting this, having acquired the skills for their age or for their grade. So then a kind of like they can get, you know, diagnosed or re-referred to services, education services to utilize an intervention specialist, generally through an IEP and an individualized education plan or like a 504. So different ways that you can get these services. And then I would then work with a student or an intervention specialist, work with a student on the places where they're not quite meeting, maybe where their same age peers are. So sometimes that is academically, lots of times you get, you know, your reading and math, maybe support. But sometimes that can also be social skills or behavior skills. And so again, that's kind of why you use like grade, yes, but then also age. If your social or behavior skills are not where maybe your peers are, then there might be a category for some intervention services to help kind of build those skills. So yeah, so when I went into school, I think I always kind of wanted to be a teacher in the education field. My mom was and I grew up around it. And so I actually went to school to get my license in education, just teaching. And then I quickly found out that while I was in a preschool setting or like an observation setting, I really clung to student two or having a more difficult time in the classroom. And so then about halfway through, I was like, maybe I need to kind of shift gears a little bit and maybe specifically focus on students who might need just more support. And so, yeah, that's how I got into intervention. And then I've been in the field for 10 years, over 10 years. I've been at, oh, it was that, I guess, Bridgeway Academy, which is a school for kids on the autism spectrum for 10 years. And I was in the classroom and then kind of shifted into a more like administrative managerial role, helping train teachers, helping develop curriculum. So I kind of got to see a lot of different parts to the like education world, specifically within special education. Yeah. So that's kind of how it's morphed. And then truly there's kind of this shift when I had kids four years ago, where I knew that a classroom setting wasn't going to be what I preferred long-term or for that stage of life. And so very graciously, Bridgeway worked with me to create a position that was kind of part-time, which has been really what was really, really great for the time being. And then a couple of years ago, Ari is thinking about having a family of her own and what her future would look like at Akili. She's the Akili principal. She has been since the beginning. She helped start Akili. And I remember thinking around then, like, man, I really like what, why Akili was started. I really thought it was a need in Columbus and a unique way to meet a need in Columbus that I was like, wow, if our church was a part of something like this, I think we'd be doing something that not a lot of other people are doing. So I think from, yeah, about then I started to think about it, but I was still kind of part-time and I still didn't know, you know, what the future would be like. And then after the past couple of years, talking to Ari more and some people out of Akili kind of found this, I guess, opening for potentially me to come in and take over for Ari when she wants to be home. And it felt like after at that point, like a couple of years of praying, like, you know, if this is something that I, if God wanted me to kind of move towards then, okay, I was going to take one step, you know, and like, okay, I'll say yes here. Let's see what the next step is and kind of continue down that process. And I feel like Akili was specifically something that I was really excited about was because I had worked in the, or I guess, volunteered in the high school ministry for eight years. Here in Dwell. Eight years in Dwell. And kind of the latter half of that was we had this shift in our high school group where we had previously been kind of serving students from Worthington schools, some Centennial, and then we had this huge shift where students were coming in and these like large numbers from Northland and other Columbus city schools in the area. And so our group demographically changed very quickly. And I feel like it was at this time too, where the high school ministry was starting to reach more and more kids from Columbus city. So we were kind of at the beginning of this, like, okay, this is awesome. What do we do? How do we do this? And how is it different? How is it the same? In a lot of ways, it is the same. I was personally really excited because I am biracial, right? I'm mixed. My dad is African American. I grew up going to Westerville city schools and there is a very low percentage of diversity. In reference to, you know, something like Columbus city, there is a low percentage. Comparatively. Comparatively, right. And I remember, or at least have felt like, after being in a scenario where I was like a high school group where I was like, man, a lot of these people look like me and have the same, a similar, like, you know, maybe background or just parts of like my upbringing were similar. That was really exciting. And almost like experienced that for the first time myself, even as a leader, because my high school and a lot of the communities I've been in are predominantly white. And so I've truly felt like, man, this is the first time where I, in some ways I feel like I'm being seen. I'm relating to people and what a really unique and awesome way that's happening because that's happening within Christian community. And so I, yeah, those were some like really, really fun times. Yes. For high school ministry, but also I've, as I've like looked back, I felt like I learned a lot about myself and gained a new like appreciation for, man, I'm really proud of who I am and I'm really grateful for who I am. So, so then of course, yeah, it comes out like, okay, like, well, it's like, you know, thinking about starting a school for kids in Columbus city. I, yeah, again, I think I said briefly, I don't, I just don't think a lot of people are doing what Akili is doing, which is not to say that it's not happening anywhere, but to say that we're, we're creating an education space and community for students within Columbus city, where we know that Columbus city is a, it's a large school district and I'm not here as a like expert. I'm not here to say like to diss on Columbus city. Like my husband graduated from there. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I mean, great, great alumni. Indeed. Yes. Yeah. You look at the Columbus city that is characteristically underperforming, underfunded. They're trying to meet the needs of a lot of students. And at the end of the day, what I experienced from my being, being there as, as a student teacher was that there are just things that I couldn't do and or just more support that students needed that I couldn't provide. So I really felt like my hands were tied, but the student population that was there, I was like, man, this is, this is who I want to be with. Yeah. I, I know that I want to be with people and not that just that look like me or something like that, but providing people with an opportunity who are minorities who might not get a certain opportunity to be able to make that happen, you know, is something that ultimately I think as God has, you know, opened doors, like things that I want to be a part of. So I think, yeah, I, I, if you look at Achilles mission in educating students in Columbus city area who you know, they're, we're interested in performing well academically, but not just that, right. It's, it's also building skills that will help them be successful in life whether that's social or, you know, emotional. But then also being able to do that within the context of valuing Christian community and seeing that this, a student is not just who they are from a test score. They're not just who they are in a classroom. But they are also a person with a soul and God cares about their spiritual life. So I feel like, yeah, to me, Achilles kind of like checks all the boxes for wanting to help students really, yeah, I mean, grow in all areas of their life. So that's what's long story long led me to really keep, I guess, saying yes, I think to God and found myself here. I love it. Okay. What, so maybe for, I mean, I, I don't really know the answer to this, but how, who gets to go to Achilles? Like, okay. So it's a private school. Private. Yeah. Private nonprofit, right. We're in the nonprofit sector. Um, but we really, um, cater to, um, students who are within Columbus city and they use EdChoice. So they use their dollars, right. Government dollars to enroll into Achilles, the desire. And I mean, at the end of the day, no one pays tuition, right. EdChoice, um, ends up being, um, most of tuition. And then we write fundraise. We have, you know, dwell gives, there's other contributors to, um, to give, um, but generally within the bounds of Columbus city. And then we, we also though try to, I guess, like not prioritize, but also really want to, as we're meeting students in Christian communities in our high school groups, recognize that like, okay, if you are not happy or feel like the school that you're at is not the place that you're finding success, then Achilles could be a good option for you. Um, and so it's nice to have kind of that connection between the high school ministry who are seeing what it was something like over a thousand, you know, first time guests last year. Um, and something over like, you know, close to 300 students who are coming to know Christ, not all of them are in Columbus city, but, but what we're seeing is that, man, there's lots of students in within, um, these communities that we already have who might benefit from, um, not only a school whose focus is on their education, but also their career and their future, but also their spiritual life. And so that's kind of the like market is for students who are interested in those things. Um, so yeah. Okay. Does that answer your question? Yeah, it does. So is it like students kind of have to have like a, I don't know, a desire for like something above Columbus city standards? Like, like why would they leave Columbus city? Just they're like, I want more. That is a good point. Yeah. I think it's, I think that students have to see it do. Is this a, is the place that I'm currently at is, you know, within Columbus city, maybe the place that I'm currently at meeting actually truly meeting all of my, um, yes, education, but maybe, um, but also spiritual needs too. And I think that's, that is what sets Akelia apart, right? Is like, we're not just going to perform well or, or because of, you know, class sizes and the ability to work in smaller classrooms, teachers get a lot of time with students. They're able to help students. I mean, my opinion is far more, um, than in a general education, you know, um, public setting within Columbus city. Um, so yeah, there's a category for like, do you care about your academic performance? And, um, but then also do you, are you interested in, um, also growing your faith? Like a spiritual education. Yeah. And right. And you don't, not everyone is a Christian, so it doesn't have to be like, Oh, you have to be a Christian to come here. Yeah. Right. There's no signing on some line or something like that. Um, it's really cool. There's actually in the past couple of years, they've created some curriculum and offer different classes for kind of different where people are at in their faith. Okay. And so there's some like introductory level, like exploring your faith classes. And then there's kind of the like Christian growth setting, like, okay, what do we do when we start relationship with God? Kind of it's like, you know, um, exploring your faith that you've started. And then, um, it started kind of a like, um, training leadership training course for some upperclassmen who go to high school groups who are, um, involved in discipleship and mentoring and really see themselves as people who they want to lead their friends and go be in their community, um, as a spiritual influence. Um, and so that, I think that's really unique too, is like, we're not just saying here, dump this Bible information on you. Um, but really trying to meet students where they're at spiritually and say like, okay, what does it look like to grow from here? Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. How many, what's like the student body population? Um, so like who makes up demographics or just like, how many kids go to Achilles? So this year there's like mid thirties, I think like total, all four grades. So it's a very, I mean, it's a small school, but you think about any new organization. Um, and I mean, you started from scratch, so you started from nothing. And, um, our hope is that right. We would grow as a school. I, I would really like that. That's a goal. I think, I mean, Ari's definitely had, um, and has put a lot of work into, and I think it shows, um, and that I also, you know, agree and hold. Um, I would love to see Achilles as a school that builds its student body. Um, and yeah, but the, but the opportunity that's created with, um, a smaller student body is that now our students, our teachers have access to helping students. I mean, some individually really. Um, and so it's been really cool as, so I've been kind of on Achilles team as the intervention specialist this past school year and just starting to kind of, we're really building, um, the kind of like intervention world of Achilles. Um, and it's just, it's great because it's another resource that students have to kind of, again, they're not maybe performing where they want to be and they might need extra support. So like, how can we do that within the Achilles community? You have access to your teachers who are right there with you. Um, and then you also might have extra support outside of that tutoring services. Um, you know, they have an education, they'll have, continue to have an intervention specialist on staff. Um, so really again, it's, um, it's creating a place where I think students will, if they want to succeed, they will have the means to and the resources to, which is something that they will not get, you know, and in a larger public setting. Totally. That's awesome. Um, so, okay. So with like, uh, as an intervention specialist, like, how do you, is it like, okay, we're looking at like state, like standardized testing and kids that are sort of like underperforming. Okay. You sort of get flagged or like, how do you know when to intervene? That's a, that's a good question. I mean, it's, it's a long process. Um, I would say outside of testing, it has more to do with, so, you know, the education world is, um, operated on the basis or framework of standards. Okay. So there are education standards within each subject that a teacher, you know, uses to help build a framework for what they teach. Um, and so those standards or objectives that they have, they're really looking for by grade that a student is, acquires knowledge and then uses what they learn, right. To, and express what they know. Um, and then, you know, as a student is in, you know, kindergarten for a second grade, hopefully you're, we're, you know, catching it young, but, um, you have students who get further and further behind and not make meeting those standards. Okay. Then you start to talk about, okay, why is that happening? And you go through a lot of, um, kind of, um, data collection. There's a lot of data collection involved in intervention, the intervention world. So you're keeping kind of track of, okay, what's happening? Why could this be happening? And at some point there might be a, a reason, um, to, um, suggest that a student should be evaluated maybe for a learning disability or, or some other type of diagnosis that would then help them, you know, meet maybe, um, the standards, but with some, um, maybe accommodations or maybe with some extra practice or help in some way. Okay. Yeah. What are some common reasons that like a kid would fall behind? Um, well, like I said, like I think there's oftentimes, um, like a learning disability, right? Like our, our brains all work differently. Um, and I don't need to get, I don't want to get too much into the, how the education, you know, system is set up as a like whole, right? But it is my non-expert opinion that the education system is set up as a place where you might see the majority of people succeed, or maybe a certain percentage of people succeed, but then you might be missing out on, um, other students succeeding because maybe they have a disability, maybe they have barriers at home or just, um, environmental, um, background, like, yeah, environmental barriers. Um, I mean, do you talk about the interests? I mean, I've, this year I read, um, why gender matters by what sacks. So, right. Then you'd start talking about, you know, is, is gender part of this is our school set up to educate, you know, girls, sure. Yeah. Girls more than they are boys. Um, so again, I, I think there are, right. There are a lot of factors behind why a student could be struggling or falling behind. Um, the intervention world is set up to generally help students who have been given a diagnosis of some sort. Um, and then specific, you know, kind of accommodations or practices that would help them succeed. But there are, there are other reasons out there why a student would fall behind. Gotcha. Okay. Um, what kind of, okay, so you flag this kid's behind, um, you, you do your data analysis. Okay. We think it's, we think it's this one thing, or we think it's, we actually think it's a combination of like, it's probably like a bunch of different factors. Um, I don't know. Are there typical, like, here's, I don't know, here's like the common ways that we typically would intervene and support a kid. Like here's what we offer. Um, I guess, I mean, it depends on, right. It would depend on the reason. Um, so you have my background, right. As students who specifically have a certain diagnosis, right. And on autism diagnosis. So the way that we might intervene might be different, um, than a student who lets, you know, maybe take, um, so some students at Achille who are in a Columbus city setting. And, um, again, I'm not going to speak for what happens in every single classroom, right. In a public school setting, but you have a student who gets kind of pushed through and ends up being, um, in fifth, sixth, seventh grade, but has not really acquired the maybe reading skills or comprehension skills to be successful in seventh grade. Um, so now you have a student who's several years behind, um, in that, um, I would generally say, so your question was about like, what would you do? Like what, um, so this is, okay. As a teacher, um, one thing that in the classroom that I think helped a lot and is not a, like something that they will directly teach you as an accommodation is that specifically with reading and inadvertently basically every other subject, um, because you have things like word problems, even in math or sciences, um, is that students need to read. They should be exposed to texts. Um, and I'm saying like hard copy texts in front of their face, um, books, um, hard again, hard copy, you know, chapter books. Um, because I, because when you have a student who's motivated or at least has learned to find something like reading enjoyable, even if it's not in education, they find Captain Underpants enjoyable. Yes. You're talking about my son. Right. But he's reading and there are so many things that are not taught within the, like the education classroom. Yeah. Um, about reading, but they're doing it and it's actually like building skills to be able to be successful in potentially like a college setting because now you're interacting with text face to face. You're understanding even lines on a page. Right. Um, there's like, I honestly think this is, I've been from your class about brain rot, but, or just like some articles that I was, yeah, you're welcome. Great class. Um, but some like, uh, literature on the importance of having something, um, like reading lines, you know, um, text in front of you versus on a screen, um, and scrolling. That's, you are, you are taking in information. Your brain is working differently when you're taking an information on a screen, even if you're reading versus a hard copy book. Um, and so I think there's so much to be said personally for getting students, young kids to read, um, and even to look at books. I now, and I say this as someone who had a hard time reading. Um, I actually struggled with reading into high school and didn't really like reading until post-college I think. Oh, okay. Um, and then I became a reading teacher. And so that was the irony. What a journey. Um, but I think the, the one thing that I like, you know, flagged even for myself was that I learned differently. I needed maybe some audio with reading and while I did and kind of opened up this world to like, I can, I can read, I can learn from text, but I might be inter, I might be taking it in maybe with audio or with some pictures. I'm a visual learner. So it's great. Um, I love the audio and I love the visual too, but yeah, it's, you know, there's, yeah. That's not really answering your question, but I think in part answering like the idea of like what to do with a student who might be struggling is I think if you can get someone reading at a young age, um, then what you're doing is building skills to be able to be successful in a classroom. That's great. I remember, um, I read, I think in the book Freakonomics I read years ago, right? Like this is kind of an old book, but anyway, they had this statistic that like, there was like a strong correlation to kids that grew up with a bunch of books in their house, not even reading them. You just had a house full of books to like, um, uh, like higher education degrees earned. And you're like, what? Yeah. But it's like something about like, no, I I'm used to this environment. I'm, I'm familiar with texts. There's positive connotations. My parents have positive connotations about reading, you know what I mean? So just like having books in the home actually correlates with like educational goals, you know? And it's just like, wait, what? But something about like, yeah, if I can get this text in a kid's hand and okay, it's dog man, you know what I mean? Like whatever. But yeah, there's not a negative connotation. Oh, this can be enjoyable. Right. That that would build and extrapolate, you know, like as the kid gets older and I love that. Yeah. Yeah. There's even, I remember something that I think was that I thought was, uh, what's it called? I can't remember the name. Well, I can't think of the word for it, but convincing, convincing for me, even as a parent and I guess an educator is there's a study done about, um, how many words a child hears by the time that they're three, five, um, when books, it's something like one book a day or something is read to them. And it's something like, you know, 70% more words than another child who might not have a book read to them. They're, they're seeing, um, yeah, it's like three or four times as many words. So by the time they're three, they have this vocabulary that maybe they can't even use yet, but they're hearing, um, just from reading a book. It's not even just listening to people, but just from, you know, someone reading to them. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. Okay. So are there different? Okay. So you sort of talked about like, okay, maybe I learned differently. Are there like different styles of learning? Oh, Abby, don't get me started. Um, how much time do we have? That's a whole, that's a whole, yes. Short answer. Uh, yeah, I, I believe that. Yes. I think that, uh, but I think in the professional world, yes, people would agree that there are different learning styles. They call them, right? You have, oh, there's like five or six now and probably more, um, since I did research on it, but you have your like text, your reader, your learners who read through text, through auditory, um, visual learners, your tactile, more hands-on learners. Um, and I think even now they've even kind of delineated between textile or hands-on and then like movement. There's like a movement learners, right? You learn through, yes, doing things. Um, so yes, tons of different, well, not tons, but a handful of different, um, learning styles. Um, yeah. But maybe in a typical classroom, educators are maybe oriented toward one particular style. Yeah. I, I don't, I wouldn't want to make a, a. A blanket statement. A blanket statement about educators, but I would say again. What about like classroom settings? Yeah. Your standard classroom settings. Or, you know, education system as a whole. I mean, you hear the phrase, I think a lot in public school, but kind of also private school settings that, you know, we don't want to teach to the test. Um, or I might feel like I'm teaching to the test, which is the idea that there are so many, um, kind of pressures put on educators to perform well, their students to perform well on their tests that then that kind of trickle down into, um, the way that maybe a classroom is set up. And I don't think any of us want to do that. I think we, I would hope, I guess, as educators, we would set out to really try to reach all of our students and teach in a variety of different ways to reach all of our different learners. Um, but I think it's really easy to, especially maybe within more of a public setting where you have maybe a specific curriculum that you have to use of specific, maybe textbook, even first grade, you know, has to use, um, to be able to teach certain standards, um, that will then show up on a state test. And it's not to say, yes. So yes, that happens. And every, we all have to do that in some aspect, but the hope would be is that if you are in a private, more private setting, a private school setting, um, or just the ability to have a smaller student class, um, and maybe, I guess, hopefully more as an educator, more, um, ownership or responsibility for developing the curriculum versus maybe a public school setting, maybe more giving you can, you do what they're going to give you and work from that. Um, the freedom, I guess, to, um, build what you want, how you want to teach, um, yeah, you, you have the ability to then hopefully reach all of the different types of learners. Um, yeah. Okay. Well, still trying to also, I mean, Akili and private schools do also have to take the test too. So yeah. Right. We get, we, people still have to do it. Yeah. There are standards. Yeah. So right. You would want to know. There are standards for a reason. Um, yeah. So. Okay. What about like, okay. So if a kid is sort of academically behind, how might that impact them spiritually? That's an interesting, that's a good question. Um, and I will say this as like, anecdotally, like from experience, I think, um, something I've noticed is that when students are maybe underperforming at school, and maybe that's just because they haven't been given the opportunity or resources to be successful. I think in general, there's this sense of, well, this is all that I am. Right. I'm, I've reached my kind of ceiling for who I'm going to be. And now let's like live out of that. Okay. I'm, I'm not going to go beyond this. So why bother? Um, I've like peaked intellectually. Yeah. Or just like, I don't know what, what if I, I don't know the opportunity past that. Okay. So I, I think in general, there's this sense and ultimately what it is, is a like, it's a disheartened or low view of self or low, um, maybe like, um, a vision for themself that only reaches so far that doesn't actually maybe reach their like potential, potential. Um, because they don't know what else to look for. Okay. And so I think spiritually though, you see people who, um, might think, well, you know, this could never be me. Okay. Um, why? I mean, something as small as like, why would I read the Bible? I can't even read, you know, something at school. Right. Um, and the Bible, sometimes, you know, those, the words and the language is tricky. So why would I set the time to do that? Um, all the way to something like, well, you know, I can barely, I'm barely making it, um, in school. And so, you know, I'm going to, I should rather maybe focus on sports. Okay. I'm on, well, maybe I'm not going to, I'm not going to college. There's that's not a future for me. Here's where I'm maxing out. Right. Like, okay. As a career. Um, and I think in general, like I would also put in that category of like the impact that God wants us to have in people's lives and the type of influence that God wants all of us to have in other people's lives. And so I, I think it's easy to sell yourself short of what God can do when your view of yourself is low. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Like sort of a, a direct impact on your identity, like your sort of view of yourself and maybe even just sort of counting yourself out. Well, this door probably is never going to open for me. So I'm not even gonna explore, you know, I'm what I'm, I'm never going to teach the Bible, um, fill in the blank. So I'll just sort of pivot. Yeah. But the pivot, yeah. Could be detrimental. Could be just a waste of time. Could be who knows what, I guess. Yeah. And yeah. And then you also have, you know, that I think is a part of it. I think you also have a bit of like, sometimes students struggle because at the end of the day, it's not the most important thing happening in their lives. Like there are other more important or urgent needs that are not being met. And so that's where their focus goes. Right? So you have students who fall behind because why do school when at home, um, you know, I'm barely being able to take care of myself or my siblings or, you know, fill in that blank. So then I think sometimes then the urgent needs take over and in some senses are a priority, right? You can't just neglect all of those things to say like, okay, now it's like be interested spiritually. So I think that then there's also a category for rights. There are situations or, you know, some students who might be having trouble in school because at the end of the day, it actually isn't the most important thing. And so then spiritually, I think would fall in line maybe with like, I don't have time for this right now because I've got to take care of, I've got to survive, I've got to live. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not even necessarily like, okay, so on the one, on one hand, like maybe there's learning disabilities, something like that. But what you're sort of getting at here is like other facts, socioeconomic factors, the neighborhood that I live in, family structures that are like, these are legitimately complicating my life. And that's going to have an impact too. Yeah. I think when you throw in a new right complexity, you would hope that someone has the resources to be able to navigate that. But oftentimes, if someone doesn't have the resources to even thrive in functionally life, then what, why do, why would their like expectation for a thriving spiritually then like, right, becomes like way more complex or difficult. Which Akili is also, you know, I think again, not, I don't know if this is about tooting our horn, but like exposing people to like what Akili is about is like a part of the services that Akili provides or the resources and tools is that we have a career counselor and some like direct instruction, but also exposure and a career counselor and life coaching so that students have access to being able to thrive not only educationally or spiritually, but also functionally is like, man, we recognize that, yeah, you're right. Things could be going on at home that are making it really hard to learn. And so we want to help provide you with a resource to be able to do that. Yeah, that does seem sort of unique, like, okay, sort of high academic standards at Akili, like, no, we want to get the most out of our kids academically, but also like, here's these other, like a guidance counselor, a life coach who's like, let me also like beef up some skills in non-academic areas. That's really going to round out the whole kid. Ideally. Yeah, yeah. That's our goal, right? And too, yeah, you have a career counselor, we have just a counselor on staff that works with students. It's really great. They've started a a girls program or a young women's program and a young men's program about, you know, just peer relationships. I think one thing that sets people back, you know, spiritually is also can you build healthy relationships and then maintain them? And I think high school is really hard for that. And so, again, I think really uniquely Akili offers a place where students have instruction on classroom instruction on conflict resolution and the biblical perspective of forgiveness. Why can I forgive someone? Well, because Jesus has forgiven me first, but that's a foundation for like, okay, let's talk about skills beyond that. But then also offers like small groups based on grades right now to talk about some of the like more social or relational parts of life. What are the difficult parts? And then also, you know, how can we respond and kind of building skills that way. So it's really cool. Yeah, it's an intervention specialist, a career counselor, a counselor, a Bible school teacher. So we're Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, so for the non educator, what do you wish that people knew people may be serving in student ministries or, you know, like with high school students, maybe or younger, I guess, knew about this field and sort of like, yeah, academic and spiritual development? What do I wish that people working in high school ministry knew about the education field? Yeah, and sort of the dovetailing of spiritual and educational priorities. I hope that okay, so here's, I think as so having worked in the high school ministry, being a parent, being outside of that, you know, being an educator, so there's different right, kind of avenues for all of those things. I think it's really easy to view ourselves within a like narrow scope of what we do. So if I'm a high school leader, then my scope is spiritual, spiritual lives, right? As an educator, my scope is education and academic performance. As a parent, I don't know, it is all of it. Keep you alive. Yeah, maybe sleep. But still, like, I do think, yeah, I mean, as a parent, what happens at home, right? I think I've already felt myself like, well, I'm so happy when my kid goes to school, because they're going to teach them, you know, those things. And then I have to turn my educator hat on and be like, wait a second, that's not fair to the teachers. And I think we do that. I think we say like, well, this is your title, and you are responsible for this part of a student's life or my child's life. And at the end of the day, all of those different places, academically, spiritually, socially, right, like, functionally, all of those things overlap and intertwine in some way. And so I think we really shoot ourselves in the foot to say like, well, this is my only focus, when it can be when it is in reality so much more. Now, that's not to say like, if you're a high school leader, and maybe like, mentor or disciple a kid who is in high school, do you have to teach them to read? No, I do not. I do not think that you are not trained to do that. But you are trained to, and I hope that you would show compassion and patience for maybe a student who is learning to read is learning to comprehend higher level text, or more difficult text, and work with a student where they're at to help best teach them versus trying to say like, maybe like call it quits too early or like, have a like low view of, you know, maybe what someone could learn or a low view of where God what God could do through someone. I think that would be really detrimental. Specifically as a like high school ministry worker, or, you know, just any person in a secondary ministry who's working with young students. Yeah. And then thankfully, of course, I think dwell does a really good job of, you know, making sure that resources are provided and offers different things. I know the high school ministry has a tutoring program. And Akili also, you know, has a tutoring program, but there are different, you know, so there are different things out there to say like, okay, we get it like, you have a student who might need some extra help. Okay, let's get them into utilizing some of these other resources. Resources like life coaching, like life coaching to the high school ministry, life coaching, tutoring. There's a tutor. Okay. Yeah. Tutoring program, or at least there has been maybe you can factor that, but there has been for the past couple years, and it might also be through life coaching now. Maybe that's it. I don't know. Yeah. So again, I guess it's just, it's to say that I wouldn't want to not give up on a student. I don't think we would say that. But I think it's really easy to be frustrated when maybe a student isn't getting something. And we might have to be the one to step back and say, wait a second, is there something else I can do to help to meet them where they're at? To really, I guess, like say, what is God doing to meet them where they're at? And I'm going to choose to do those things to help them succeed. Yeah. Do you know of any like sort of specific resources like, yeah, a youth worker or even a parent, you know, and sort of grappling with, I think my kid is behind or, you know, my kid is sort of struggling here. I don't know. Are there books or podcasts? I mean, I'm sure there is. I'm not up to date on the like education side of resources. You know, I will say as, you know, being a part of community and being a part of, you know, Christian community and Dwellers community, I would personally, if it were me, start with by asking my friends and maybe it's just my friends, but I feel like if I feel like my friends are pretty good at like, you know, here's some things to try. But beyond that and beyond our scope of who we are, like, you know, ask a teacher, ask a maybe a pediatrician, you know, right. Like if you're truly, if you have a student who is, you are concerned is truly struggling. I think I would as a parent want to ask my child's teacher and then start asking what resources that school has about what they can, how they can be helpful. And then potentially be talking to, you know, a doctor or pediatrician about what kind of like, like diagnosis they could get. And that's not to diagnose anyone, but to say that it could be there. And so why not ask? Yeah, I don't... I'm sure there are lots of podcasts out there, books. I don't know. I feel like this is one thing, especially that I would want to refer someone to a professional before I like... You would want to like listen to a podcast with a grain of salt, maybe. Or versus just going in like, I'm going to teach you how to read now. Or let's Google or look on TikTok. Don't maybe go to social media platforms for reading instruction. But if you're talking about like, you know, what do you do or what resources if you want to like help your kid, maybe I would say start with reading or just exposure to reading. Because again, I think I already said this, but like, it is reading is cross-curricular. Reading goes into everything. I'd be exposing my kid to different types of literature. A little poetry, a little prose. Yeah. I mean, even the graphic novels, right? Like get your son a graphic novel about something and I'm sure he'll be interested. He is. That's pretty much all he reads. Yes, that's true. That is great. He'll remember those pictures forever. Interesting. Yeah. Listen, audiobooks, listen in the car. I feel like I take for granted, you know, the amount of time I actually have to do something like listening to an audiobook. And yeah, we've kind of just instituted it in our household and I have young children. So well, I guess they already share their opinion. But we have time in the car where we listen to an audiobook versus we definitely listen to songs too. Not like educator stingy. We have fun. Um, but I have enjoyed and they've enjoyed being able to say like, you know, mom, can we play? Right now it's a lot of Disney, but the Disney books on audio or Paw Patrol. I was babysitting my niece and nephew yesterday. My nephew's two and my niece is five and they really wanted to go in my car because my car is way better than their parents' car. Evidently, it was exciting. And I was like, yeah, sure. What are we going to do in my car? And I was like, we're going to listen to something and like found some podcasts that, you know, the internet said that this age range would like. And they, I mean, they sat there quietly for like 35 minutes and just listen to this story about a girl with a handkerchief. And you know, like I was shocked, you know, like, oh man. Yeah. People, I don't know, respond, even little kids to like spoken word and, you know, stories and narrative and stuff like that. Songs, songs are great. Um, also this is also not educational. I, this is probably more like, more developed, like child development. But I think the importance of, and kind of like, yeah, touching to like, um, coddling of the American mind, um, kind of world, um, is the importance of play and just being outside. Right. I remember the, like, I feel like we've really hit a, and I'm sure this podcast in particular isn't about the like trends, you know, over the past couple of decades, but, um, the amount of time that students and children spend outside is significantly less. Um, and so really a lot of my things is like how to get away from a screen and get interacting with, um, different literature in different ways, but then also the importance of, um, play and being outside where they're problem solving and learning through experiencing their world. Um, yeah. So I think as a parent, I think that's a great place to start, right. As the non-professional, um, yeah. And there are some other, you know, obviously like places that you can go if you have real concerns about, you know, if a student is struggling, but that's great. Do you have any, um, uh, before we wrap up here, like success stories, like, man, uh, here's an example of a kid, you know, who was behind and here's how some intervention was really helpful for him or her academically, spiritually, whatever. Um, I mean, yes. Yeah. There are lots. I, I have one that stands out in the education world. Um, and so, yes, like I said, all of my students come in with an autism diagnosis and generally they're placed and at Bridgeway or at Bridgeway because their, um, schooling or their setup is not again, meeting their needs, um, as a student with an autism diagnosis. And so I had a student come several years ago and now he's graduated. Okay. Um, he's taken some college classes. Okay. Um, but he came in and told me his first day he couldn't write. He had a dysgraphia or like diagnosis of not being able to write well, um, and not write more than two sentences and everything, all the information that was kind of given to me and our team was that, yeah, don't expect him to write. Someone should write for him. Um, you can use a little audio for, you know, it can write for him. And those are, those are things that work for students, um, and are totally appropriate, um, for students. Um, and it didn't take long to realize that I think a problem that happens a lot with in education, whether it's because of a diagnosis or maybe other factors is that they have learned to be helpless. They have learned that, you know, I can't do this. So here's what I can do, but I really can't go beyond that. And so he definitely, yeah, all the signs, right. Of like, I can never type, I can never type a paragraph. I can never, um, I can never handwrite, um, just in general, handwrite more than two sentences. His name and maybe the date was all I was getting at first. Um, so I wrote for him for a while. Um, can I ask a clarifying question? Like, so with dysgraphia, I'm not super familiar with it. Like what, what is it just like, and then it turns to scribbles or then what happens? So again, limited knowledge of what I know, but it's like a, um, the way the brain interprets, um, you know, how we write the writing part of our brain. So brain to hands, um, it doesn't compute maybe the same way that we do. So a lot of times you see student, the very, very young students, um, writing letters and correctly switching things around, but, and you see that for maybe like over and over again for maybe a period of time. And you start to maybe ask a little bit more questions. Um, it could be dysgraphia, it could also be something else. Okay. There's some sort of disconnect. Yes. A disconnect brain to hand to write. Um, so there are lots of very specific, um, kind of like ways to teach handwriting to students with dysgraphia. Um, so this kid, how old was he when he got to you? This kid when I got to, he was in middle school. Okay. Um, and he's like two sentences. That's it. I'm done. Yeah. Yeah. And by the end of the year he was writing three paragraph essays. Get out. But I mean, yeah, three paragraph essays. He graduated and told me that he's writing a book and that's what he's working on now is he's writing a book. Um, and so, and you know, yeah, of course he's like attributes, you know, his success to community, but you know, I look back and I'm like, I attribute it to him telling himself that that wasn't all he could do. Right. At some level, at some point you have to unlock, you can do more than this. And the potential that you have is beyond maybe what you or someone else has told you you have. And so, and I think that happened in a lot of different ways, but, um, you know, for him it really clicked. And I think you see that, you see that a lot with, you know, other students too, but yeah. That's awesome. Just a big, huge emphasis on like identity, man. Like this isn't all that you are, you're more, you know, and so to hear that from someone like, okay, you have had this legitimate struggle in the past, but that's, this isn't the end of your story. And, you know, so for someone to communicate belief in him and a path forward, yeah. But you're always looking for ways to, and right, exactly. It does, it has like very direct, I think, a spiritual correlation, um, is, uh, yeah, if we, if we believe who God says we are as his children and the capacity and the potential that he has for us is, well, one, we're his heirs that are given and trusted with so much here, then how much more could God do through us when we believe that versus like, you know, believing that I can't do. Totally. Yeah, that's really good. I, you know, it's like, if I think back to like, I don't know, the 20 year old version of myself who was like a real turd, you know, and if someone was like, that's it, you, you kind of suck, which I did. But if that, that was it, you know, like, you're never gonna stop being this way or you can never change, you know, like you've maxed out, you've hit that ceiling. Like you're saying like, man, I think that my entire life would have shaken out differently. But people were like, no, I see this. There's this, you know, there's hope in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's very cool. Yeah. And whether people say it or, I mean, at the end of the day, right, it's, it's like, do I believe that it's from God that my potential, who God wants me to be and has designed me to be, created me to be is more than maybe I'm telling myself or what this world has to offer me or what these other people have maybe even told me. So do I care about God's, you know, authority and his word more than what people or this world have told me is true about me? Very cool. All right, Morgan, looking ahead at your new position, the next school year, are there things that you're sort of particularly excited about coming down the pike? Um, yeah, yes. There's, I feel like there's some personal excitements. And then, obviously some, maybe like for the school, some things that I'm excited for. I think personally, I have not been in the high school ministry field for four or five years, but I really, I think working with students between the ages of 14 and 22 is the jam. It's the best. They're, I was chaotic in high school and it is chaotic and it's so much fun. And already I've, you know, have been able to be at Achille a couple hours a week. And I, I mean, I just think high school students are funny. They are genuine in that they generally are not hiding, you know, themselves some, and that is really funny to me. I love it. I love it. So I'm personally excited to be working with high school students. I think it's a, an age where in spiritually too, like what I, I feel like there's a lot of research on when people come to know Christ and the important ages that happens. And I think in high school and like early college, right, are formative years for when we're learning about who we are and believing who we are. And to know that Achille is a place where students have the ability to learn, not just what, you know, the social media world says who they are, but they're learning their intrinsic value of who God says they are. I think that's really, I'm really excited to be a part of a place that is teaching students the truth, I guess, about who, who they are and to watch how that impacts how they could live the rest of their lives. So I'm really excited for that. As a goal, I think as a school, I would really love to see, you know, some more students there. I think our current student body is really incredible. They're a really great group. From what I hear a lot, but also as I've gotten to know some of them, and they're kind of, they've created and are creating this culture of friendship and of really buying into like, we want to be a part of Achille and we know that that's different. But so I would, I hope that we would see more students attend Achille and enroll in Achille. And then, and truly, right now, my college group, I am in the college ministry and we have two alumni from Achille in my college ministry, in my college group. And it has been really, really cool to get to know them and to know that they've gone through, I think both of them went ninth through 12th grade. And so then watching them very smart, very sharp young men, young man and woman be, you know, kind of in their next phase of life. So yeah, obviously the like goal is to hopefully see, you know, as Achille students come through Achille that they're not just performing well academically, but they're part of spiritual community and see that how God could use them there. That's awesome. Yeah. What a great, yeah. What a great way to end like, okay, here's like, here's some goals, you know, kids that have made it through and yeah, are plugged into a community, playing a role, saying yes to Jesus. I love that. That's great. Yeah. Well, that's all for this episode of Dwell on These Things. Thank you, Morgan. Yeah. Thank you for joining us. And thanks to everybody who gave us a listen. If you are interested in hearing more Dwell on These Things podcast, go ahead and subscribe or follow the podcast for notifications about future episodes. And if you have, if you are interested in more information about Dwell Community Church in particular, you can find us on the internet at dwellcc.org.