So that's that's how we get where we get and that's what made me want to share my story Is that life is possible? After you lose, you know a child if you keep saying yes to God and if you really wholeheartedly believe That you'll see them again. Mm-hmm. Yeah Hey, welcome back to dwell on these things a podcast to a community church Today's episode is something of a personal reflection Abbey Merker sits down with Mariana Havkan a member of an adult home church who shares her testimony of coming to Christ But also her story of loss and grief in 2022 Mariana lost her son Andrew in a car accident In this conversation. She talks pretty honestly about grief doubt and anger at God But also about the hope that carried her through and what she's learned about eternity along the way This one is personal and heavy in places But ultimately it's a story of real faith holding up under real loss And so we hope you enjoy this dwell on these things episode with Mariana Havkan Welcome back to dwell on these things I'm your host this week Abbey Merker and we're gonna be talking to Mariana Havkan and She's gonna share personally in her story Some of what she's experienced in the last couple years some some loss some Powerful Intervention from God himself and she's willing to talk with us about it. So Mariana tell us your story. Hello Abbey. Yes, I would love to so my story with Jesus started very early In my lifetime. I was born culturally Jewish in st. Petersburg, Russia We didn't really get a chance to practice Judaism because it wasn't that popular We would go to the synagogue to get like matzo bread or whatever. That was the extent of kind of What I grew up with and the food like the tradition but nothing as far as like with the religious side of it So we had a summer house, which sounds a lot fancier than it really is. It's called Dacha, right? It's like a little house that you go to during a summer and spend time with your family So most of the folks in those summer houses just come for the summer but there are some folks in those houses that are permanently there and Our neighbors across the street sold their house. So this really nice family and I didn't know Who they were and I was three three years old and I was like Old soul if you wish that's what I was told because I talked probably the same amount as I talk now, which is a lot so I ventured out to introduce myself and See who these people are and I heard they had pigs so See if I do like I got to meet them. See if I can finagle my way into some live pigs so my mom always told me don't really start your conversation with people from I'm Jewish because That's gonna be not in your favor. So don't do that Mm-hmm, and of course I came up to them and just like my mom asked me to I said hi My name is Marianna and I'm not Jewish definitely because you know, she said not to you know I listened to my mother and so they said really so Do you know that Jesus was Jewish and I said no and they said do you know who Jesus is? I'm like God, I don't know. I knew that somehow and they're like, yeah But he was also human and guess what? He was Jewish And so I was like really so they're like cool with me being Jewish. Yes And then, you know, they invited me to share a meal with them and we prayed Before to God and then they had this wooden spoons that they ate with I was like, oh my god, these are my favorite people and I met the pigs. I got to meet the pig. Wow Okay, so that's that's how my relationship with Jesus started. Yes, so that was a much smoother time But I didn't land on a church I didn't land on the community So basically throughout many years I would try to find it and I I got baptized again in my 20s, okay, try to go to church and it's just like because the Theology was missing a huge piece that needs to to be present right in your walk and the grace component I felt like I was failing. Mm-hmm. And so fast forward to me Being divorced having a kid who was you know Five or six and I decided I want to live in Miami. So I up and moved To Miami and I think God never stopped pursuing me Throughout my life periodically. I would pray and I you know, I've never lost the belief that there's you know Live God that there's Jesus, but I thought I was going to hell honestly. I'm like, I love you God I believe in you, but there's no way that I can be good enough to go to heaven That would that's kind of where my walk back to walking with God began If you want to call it that and then under some peculiar circumstances, I meet my current husband Alexi and You know, we start talking Randomly about our beliefs and he was like, yeah, I have some Jewish blood But you know, I believe in Jesus and I was like, well funny you mentioned that me too Uh-huh, and neither one of us was walking at the time obviously, you know, there was partying going on and all that stuff, but his son Lenny Was growing up with one of the boys from dwell and the dwell families Wait, how did you get to Columbus? Alexi was from Columbus. He was working here living here. And so but you met in Miami. Yeah, he was on vacation You met him on vacation. Okay, so he was on vacation. I wasn't And then you move up here to Columbus. Yeah, and his son had started attending dwell and his son was in high school he was 13 okay. My son was 12 and his younger son was 11. Okay, so all the boys started attending The Dwell, I think they were trident and I think their home churches name was adamantium. Okay And so yeah, the the mom's family was like check out because we don't know this church So check them out see see what they're all about. Mm-hmm, and we went and we loved it and we stayed We ended up meeting the Foxes. Okay, and now they're our closest friends Todd and Julie. Yeah, and I think God Always make sure that you are Situated and taken care of and are in the right place. Even if you don't know it for the tragedy to come Because when I was already walking with the Lord and I had a really good support in Columbus You know and in the well community, that's when the accident happened So, I don't know what would have happened if it was any other time. Honestly, yeah So that's that's how we get where we get and that's what made me want to share my story Is that life is possible after you lose, you know a child If you keep saying yes to God and if you really wholeheartedly believe that you'll see them again. Mm-hmm. Yeah so Timeline wise, okay, so Andrew died coming up on four years ago. Is that right? Yeah, it was 2022 and December 17 I know it was an accident. Yeah, it was a tragic car accident Yeah, and I thank God every day that no one else have died with them He was driving and he was the one that died and his friends survived it and I'm so grateful. I'm thankful for that Walk us through tell us a little bit about like that first year. What was it like for you? So when it happened I quickly told everyone that the tragedy happened and Andrew is with Jesus now, and I don't know what prompted me to do that But I would just wanted everybody to know that he is in a good place What do you want to tell us about Andrew? Oh Boy, Andrew. Well, we came to Columbus and you know, he liked, you know to please me So he got baptized in the vineyard, but he wasn't really like I and I was I was praying for Community for me and community for him. So he had other believers So he couldn't be just my thing that I was trying to project onto him, but he could have his own thing Yeah, and that's exactly what happened. He met Like-minded kids who were believers. He had the time of his life, you know when he had his accident He Accidentally, they recorded him saying like speaking at the meeting. It was a Christian camp and Bethany Mm-hmm. He said I'm having the best day of my life That day so Yeah, he loved the Lord. He loved to read the Bible. He impacted a lot of kids They described him as you know being a jokester. I know he who he takes that after I don't like to be serious as much as possible So but when needed to he would take the jokester face off and just would sit down and have a heart-to-heart conversation and One thing that he was never shy is about saying hey, I love you, brother You know like just honestly genuinely saying that and you know teenagers in those years They're kind of embarrassed saying that to each other which is normal after he died I've attended a few meetings of high school group because they were so supportive like the high school group kids Andrew's friends They carried me through the next couple years. Mm-hmm. It was crazy like the first Mother's Day 30 kids show up in in the bus to my home church and They all told me hey mom Happy Mother's Day because I was like nobody's gonna call me mom again and like his immediate friends that were there that day You know, he had some older friends still till this day when they see me. They're like mom Yeah You know cuz that was my thing. I was like nobody's gonna call me mom again. Yeah I don't know why that was so scary, but you don't you don't realize it how important it is. Mm-hmm You know these little things. Mm-hmm. So yeah, okay, but The thing that helped me, you know live at that moment was I knew where Andrew went clearly I knew he was with God, but it's still you know, it was hard to process. So I was talking to my friends and I said he was such a godly boy. He could have done so much good here He could have impacted so many kids But I saw how many kids he already impacted they were telling each other. I'll never be embarrassed to tell you. I love you again You know and then some girl came to Jesus. She said I really want to see Andrew in heaven So I really want to like accept Jesus into my heart. So You know, we don't know God's plans right and Only he knows what's up there and what's up there so much better Than what we have up here. Yeah, he's never gonna get to get married have kids, but he's also never gonna experience heartbreak financial burdens job You know, so things like that kind of kept me going in a way and I've received so much love from his friends I always have you know teenage boys and young boys in my life that like love me So God doesn't if you look for those things, you will find them. You'll find peace. That's the most important thing But also I want to warn someone never to get complacent because I do still have Things that happen to me if I'm not in the word enough if I'm just like, oh everything's going great something happens And I'm like what what just happened? Was that me? Like we we open doors For things to happen so just because You're doing all the right things that you think you're doing There's still things that open the door for for doubts for for sin for for evil. Mm-hmm. It's a war But that first year as I said, like the whole dwell community was so amazing I didn't have to think about what I was gonna eat like any help that I needed Everybody just like rallied around me and especially his friends who were teenagers. They were grieving themselves and I don't know if I could have done that without them and most of them are believers, but a few of them are not and they believe in reincarnations of souls or Whatever and I think that makes them feel better, but I don't I don't understand how that could I Don't know I think even if there's a one chance of a million that you know, Jesus is waiting for us I think it definitely is worth exploring for whoever is skeptical because the bull the belief the real belief right comes after sitting under the word Having a community of believers Around you and you can see how their walk is affecting their marriages the way they raise their kids And I am very fortunate that my first home church was only in Tangier Mary and Tom Barnum and the Foxes were leading the church and There was a lot of folks that I could look at and see what what that looks like You know to to walk with God and it was just it just they had this aroma About them. I was like, I want to be like that, too. Yeah So it was you didn't feel like you got a ton of like oh this weird input or unhelpful feedback Not not from not from our folks not from from believers, but from from other people Yeah, like this is you know, this is never gonna get better, right? You just have to get used to it or I'm sorry. I don't even know what to say. Well Okay, don't say anything or my favorite was oh my god, you don't understand. I just been sick about it I've just been crying for a week. Oh my god, like how did you just make my child's death about you? But you know, I just kind of took it with a sense of humor being like I am so sorry I I am I apologize that you had a bad week because my son died And then like yeah, you think it's not gonna get better but like and then if not not from dwell But like other believers would say I am so sorry. I'm so sorry poor Andrew I'd be like are you not a believer? Are you not a Christian? Yeah, right and then they would be like, what do you mean? And I'm like, well, why are you? Sorry for Andrew. Yeah, why poor Andrew for me? Sure. You should re-evaluate if you really are a Believer if you're saying you're sorry for Andrew, I question you sir You know Everybody's different too. There's not the same person some people like me like I wanted people around and I was very transparent Like all you if you don't mind me asking no, I would go through the story over and over and over with anybody it didn't Upset me to to get asked. I wanted to to share it. Some people don't and it's okay Because not everybody's grief looks the same but things like oh, I don't know what to say. Well, shut up. Don't say anything You don't know what to say. Don't say or like not reaching out to someone That you are close to who lost someone and then like saying I just didn't know what to say And I just just ignoring them like just yeah, I just say like hey, I'm here. I love you Just you know, can I bring you some food? Can I just sit with you? Do you just want to watch TV because like Julie sometimes would be like do you need anything? I'd be like I need nothing. I don't want any food. I'm not hungry She's like, what do you want? I just want you to sit there and watch Sopranos with me Andrew watch Sopranos, so literally Todd and Julie would sit there and watch Sopranos with me and that's what I wanted. Yeah, I love that What was some of the I don't know Do you remember anything like that was strikingly helpful or like things that people said or like the tapestry example? But like, you know, you may not get your answer. Why? Because I did ask that question And because we were like learning about attributes of God like my way of dealing with grief was a little bit of grief counseling And then Amy's like, you know, you you don't want to hear that probably what you're killing this thing So just yeah the grief thing you got it. And so I just took a bunch of classes You know like as many classes as I could Attributes of God or a dwell. Yeah, although there's there's no better classes and it's like a theology College types of situation Yeah, and like that's what got me through or the LTC because I was getting knowledge I was getting you know, I you know the Kind of ability to defend my faith with apologetics. And of course, I'm you know learning how to listen to other people's opinions before Jumping in and saying you're wrong This is what you know, like a lot of patience comes with you know, you have to build relationships You have to build real friendship. You have to disciple and get discipled what? you know, these are the things that to us are like, you know, it's a walking one-on-one right but They there wasn't logical to me. I like why would you read the Bible more than once? Do you think that sort of like the interest and like I want to learn like this like Sort of passion for like I want to grow I want more knowledge sort of sprang from I don't know grief the loss like Yes, okay. Yes Because before it was like, yeah. Yeah, I hear you Julie. I hear you. I was getting discipled You know like learning stuff with Julie, maybe I'll take some classes like, you know, cool cool nice But when the strategy happened, I was like, I want everything Because I just wanted to constantly be in it and like everything there's to know about heaven all the books about heaven You know all that stuff like I'm gonna be an expert in heaven because I want to know what my kids doing Yeah at any point time I mean there's I wish there was more stuff but more things are coming out and I'm always down to read about it Learn about it. Tell other people about it before that, you know, I thought there was like Boring heaven, you're just floating in the cloud I like that but you know learning how grandiose and amazing is gonna be and like the The thought about heaven that my husband was afraid of is we're not gonna be able to learn anything Like we're just gonna be what like just know it all without anything so knowing that we will be able to learn and we'll be able to pursue our passions and You know, it's a lot more complicated than just floating on the cloud. Yeah boring, you know, that's it's very comforting yeah, and so I think my thirst for knowledge was Me seeking comfort because you find comfort in that you find comfort in knowing You know God's Word and I find myself when I get lazy and I stop reading the Bible I'm just like I'm just gonna Netflix and chill. Mm-hmm then oops, and then I'm depressed. Mm-hmm. I wonder You know, so go back to prayer go back to reading the Word and then I'm happy again, you know But it's it's a constant we can't just like one and done it, you know, I took the classes check. I'm good Yeah, yeah, peace out. Yeah. Yeah But I I made myself do things that I wasn't comfortable with to become comfortable with them. Mm-hmm Because I was like you have to move forward. You can't stay back and I was like, what do I volunteer for? That's that's another thing That's what I was doing more than now, I'm getting a little lazy When I was grieving I was like, who can I help? What can I do like working at least anything? I was like doing the camera during the harvest meeting, you know You know like moving the tables during the Christmas Yeah, you know whatever whatever I can do like nothing like huge not like doing podcasts or speaking I've said just anything if I can help anybody just don't make me cook anything, but anything else I'll do and and that helps when you take I mean God has a formula for us You know take the focus off you and on to others, you know That's he says love others more than you love yourself and you will feel better. It's a cheat code. It's interesting because I Would imagine you know You experience this very personal loss and the assumption is from outside of a Christian worldview Like you just need to like focus on yourself right like what you're saying is No, what was tangibly helpful was stepping outside of my own head. Let me meet some other needs let me put my my hands my mind my body to use helping other people and that was stabilizing and helpful and Yeah, I need to keep telling myself that because I know that formula works, but you know Netflix sometimes It it's like the gym right Abby we all know if we went to the gym We would be healthy and strong and you know, we all know that but but once we do it We're like what why what didn't I go? It's amazing. I feel so good The same thing is helping others trying to take the focus off yourself always and it's just amazing how that works Yeah, I like that Here's like I don't know maybe this is a raw question What was it like? To like I don't know sort of bring Jesus into your pain. Like how how did you bring him into that? well first I was really mad and I was like Am I hypocrite because like I'm coming to The meetings with you guys and you guys are coming to me and we're praying but I'm mad at him right now I'm really mad at him and Todd and Julie were like, well, he knows you're mad at him. I think he can handle it You know, you don't have to like cuss him out, but definitely definitely have conversations I think that made our relationship with Jesus more real. Mm-hmm, you know To me prayer is not like, you know, or heavenly father I'm like, dude It's a relationship, you know, like why is it happening to me how please help me find peace like what do I do? What do I do? Like I've been like bargaining like I want to see Andrew my dreams I want to see Andrew my dreams, but also God is like, you know, I'm telling me I want to you know I'm on my own timing So, you know like you have to you learn the patience you learn to listen you learn to focus on what's important And you learn to understand and respect that God has his own time and he's just he's loving he's kind But he's just also, you know Yeah, it was it wasn't like Okay, God gave me this insight and I've never looked back. No it it still is it's a roller coaster It's gonna be like that moments. There's dark moment Those nice people that said it was gonna be like that for the rest of my life there. They're right I mean, you know, they weren't wrong, but I think it's anybody can figure out if you have lost like that This is where I live now I have moments where I'm extremely happy and I'm peaceful and I'm joyful and I know I'm gonna see him again I can't wait to hear about all these things. He's experiencing and then there's times that I'm like, am I really lying to myself? You know what? I mean? And then you go to the word and then you have the community and then you You know are around like-minded people and you're like, yeah Yeah, like I don't know if people telling me they never have doubt more power to them I think pretty much most of us. We're still sinners. Like I am just as much of a sinner as I was When I wasn't walking it's just now I have grace and I have such a love for God that I'm like, oh man I'm sorry. I did that I not because I'm like not gonna go to heaven now. I'm still going to heaven Yeah, but it's like I disappointed someone that's done so much for me And it takes so much to understand like oh, well, he took your child away. He didn't my child is home Yeah, I I remember hearing this someone speaking about grief and You know, I think that we often Operate under this assumption, especially if you experience like a really tragic like a big loss That well time heals all wounds, right like and eventually You won't be sad anymore. You know, it won't be like this forever and How how perhaps it's better understood as I? Don't know grief grief sort of stays the same but you can grow as a person around it You know, you know what? I just remember daddy. I Remember when it just happened Julie would take my hands and into her hands and say what do you wish for right now, Mariana? Realistically, what do you wish for? Well, obviously besides him not being dead, right? That's all I said, I wish it was three years from now. I wish it was three years from now now Because I know it will hurt but it won't hurt like that. Yeah, and that's true. Yeah, that's that's what everybody means by time He'll is all I still I'm grieving but it's not raw like that. Yeah, I Still cry. I'm still gonna forever be upset about it, but I've yeah To put it in the words, so it's easier for everybody to understand you learn to live with it, right? But you have to allow yourself If I didn't have God in my life and if I wasn't walking and you know If I wasn't one of the Jesus people, right? I don't think I think it would be a slow death Right. I probably would have turned to drugs. I probably would have I don't know. Yeah, I Don't know. I don't know if I would be here to be honest, but with having faith and with having So important having a community. Yeah, I can't stress that enough Yeah, and so that's why I'm able to live with it. Mm-hmm. What I Don't know. What do you have anything that you feel like you would say I Don't know to a parent where it was like they were in the situation. It was kind of fresh What would you want them to know? Just be patient It's okay to be mad at God God can handle it. Mm-hmm. I know it's sounds Counterintuitive, but try not to think about yourself and see who else needs help and you'll feel better You kind of just got to feel your feelings and move through them it's unavoidable You have to go through it and I hated it I knew that That was what I had to do and that's why my wish was like I want to wake up and it's four years later Of course, but there's no way around it. But definitely that was the time that I was the closest to God Yes, that was my best relationship with him because now he's like see you don't need me as much. So that's how we are We're like going to sleep without talking to me. I mean, obviously he's not saying that but that's how that's what I imagine Yeah, and who would you be? Today if you hadn't had those three years in between You learned all this stuff you have this story of the last couple years Yeah, it mattered. Yeah, I mean and God has a reason for everything. I don't know where I would be Hopefully I'd still be here, but I wouldn't have a cool story But I don't know I'd maybe had other cool stories, but we don't choose. I mean we we can only choose to Say yes to God Everything else is there's a lot of things that happen unbeknownst to what you know, our free will and there's Other people that are involved, you know, like even the accidents sometimes it's not your fault your car's in the street and The car just hits you and you're gone, right? That's not neat It's not your free will and and knowing that and just making sure that you are relying on God That's I think that's what he wants is for us to know that by ourselves We can't do this like I can do this on my own. We can't Yeah let's Close with talking about Andrew What do you want people? To remember about him not about what happened to him, but like who he was Yeah, I definitely don't want people to remember the accident because that was the least fun about Andrew But I I want him to remember how spunky he was how loving he was How always helpful he was and always had a smile on his face always clowning around always So he was a good time. He was a good time. I can't wait to have fun with him. Yeah, absolutely That's great All right, Mariana. Well, thanks for coming on and chatting with us about something so personal but but so profound What a triumphant story, you know to look at what God is doing in your life and your husband's life And that this this wasn't the end of your story This was a pivotal moment and you got a ton to offer and Absolutely. I mean I wasn't the only one touched in the positive way with all this My husband is too very much walking with Jesus and I think you know Andrew situation had a lot to do with that as well Thanks for having me yes, but see Baba Shia That's it for this episode of dwell on these things You can like and subscribe if you want to hear more or you can find out more about our church dwell community church on the internet at dwell cc.org